I went to church with my hilarious parents Sunday. After the service I said “so where do you want to go to lunch?” My dad replied “Let’s go to that restaurant in North Carolina!”
The Olde Salty restaurant in Carolina Beach, N.C. made national headlines last week with their “Screaming Children Will NOT Be Tolerated!” policy. It’s been a joke with me and my friends for the past few years – a trip to a restaurant is not complete until we hear a bawling brat.
My dad said he doesn’t recall the constant public screaming thirty years ago. I guess as post modern parents become more and more self absorbed they just don’t care (or notice) how horribly their kids act in public. Sure enough, within 10 minutes of our Sunday lunch a kid at a nearby table threw a blood-curdling tantrum (and this was an upscale place that was definitely not child-friendly.)
All this, of course, begs the question: should children be allowed in the worship service?
It depends on your Church’s mission.
More liturgical and traditional Churches are geared for family worship – it’s a part of their DNA and churchified members expect it. A guy I knew at my last church (PCA Presbyterian) proudly declared to me one day “I want my kids to be singing the hymns in the service with me!” (He would also calculate how many hymns we sang during the praise set and would let me know after the service if his quota was not reached. And now you know one of the reasons why I started HymnCharts.com!) Once after the service I ran into one of his kids – a boy about ten at the time. “What did you think of Church?” I asked. He replied “I HATE Church!” Of course he hated Church. He was bored. To. Tears.
I remember hating Church myself growing up (which is really funny since I have a degree in Church Music.) I hated it because I was bored. To. Tears. Those were the days before kid’s services, and I vividly remember sitting through our long-winded pastor’s two hour sermons. That weekly torture is one of my worst childhood memories.
It’s simple, really – kids deserve a kid’s service tailored to them. Bring the Gospel to their level. Songs in a key they can sing with words they can understand. Maybe a sermon about not pulling your sister’s hair would hit home a bit more than your typical baby-boomer-self-help-balancing-your-checkbook-type sermon.
If your Church’s mission is to seek, save and sanctify then a separate kid’s service makes more sense. It seems unchurched people DON’T necessarily care to have their kids in the service. My friend Joe told me he invited his unchurched co-worker to visit one Sunday and the first question she asked was “do my kids have to sit with me?” (This was at the PCA Church so no, she didn’t visit.)
Parents, you simply cannot be revived and renewed by the Holy Spirit working through the music and message if you are constantly fussing with your misbehaving children. My mother noticed this one week at Brookwood – a young couple were distracted the entire service by their unruly young children. Mom said “why’d they even bother to come? They didn’t hear a word of the sermon.” Their constant bustling distracted everyone around them, too.
One of the few Churches who have the guts to pull off a strict “kids not allowed under any circumstances” policy is Newspring Church in Anderson, SC. They mean it – NO children in the service under 6th grade – kids are invited to attend one of their spectacularly appealing kid’s services. I can only imagine the bashing their poor ushers get from irate housewives.
[quote_left]If your Church’s mission is to seek, save and sanctify then a separate kid’s service makes more sense.[/quote_left]I invited a young couple to visit Newspring with me one Sunday. We met at the Church and I noticed the wife was carrying their baby. “Uh oh” I told her, “You won’t be allowed in the service.” They laughed at me like I had lost my mind until the usher stopped her dead in her tracks. Things did not end well and they didn’t attend the service. By the way, I also vividly recall being in a restaurant with said couple when said toddler screamed bloody murder throughout the meal until I wanted to crawl under the table from embarrassment. I think Newspring avoided a disaster that day.
Perry Noble at Newspring realizes a Church service is a place to “do business” with God – free from distraction. I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard a sermon interrupted at a sensitive moment by a kid’s yelping. I heard one preacher say he believes demons pinch babies during key moments of a sermon, and I believe it. The no-kids policy doesn’t seem to have hurt Newspring’s numbers – the last I heard their combined campuses reached over 14,000.
So should you allow kids in your service? There will always be Church people who insist on it and if you’re in one of those ministries so be it. But from what I’ve seen, successful contemporary Churches either don’t let kids in the adult worship or have such appealing kid’s ministries that kids insist on attending their own service.
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46 Responses to “Should Kids Be Allowed In Worship?”
September 13, 2010
superoxyWe have a separate Children’s ministry in our church.
They have Sunday school and then their own short P&W service, with two songs.
September 14, 2010
pastor jamiebeen following your blog for a while now and this one really hits a nerve. being a worship pastor i strongly believe that families should have the option to worship together and not be forced to separate when they come to church. NS may have 14000 but aren’t they near college campuses? probably not too many kids w/kids there. I’d be curious to see the ratio. anyway not to start a big debate but i love it when kids come up after the service and tell me how they loved the songs we sang and mom and dad talk about how they catch the kids singing the songs during the week. thanks for the good topics. God bless. btw, the kids are dismissed after the music for a kid-friendly bible study.
September 16, 2010
StevieCatAre you serious with this? My goodness, the time to get children to accept believing in God and the Holy Spirit is when they are young, while they still believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, et.al. Their little minds are still open to the “magic” at that time. So why not use this time to let them believe in something as real as the Lord. When I took my 6 year old son with me to a Good Friday service, it was a solemn one. Only lit by candles and with a life-sized wooden cross at the front of the church by the altar, at one point in the service, the congregation was invited to come up and either hammer a nail in, just touch the cross and say a prayer, or pin a prayer onto the cross. My son, of course, wanted to hammer a nail in. It was loud and echoed in the sanctuary. When we got back to our seats, he looked at me with tear filled eyes, held out his hand to me and said “Mom, I felt as if the nail pass through my hands. This is how Jesus died for me?” My son was born again that night and I wouldn’t have missed that opportunity for him to have a relationship with Jesus for all the “adults only” services in the world. You can’t compare church to a restaurant!
September 17, 2010
Taylor ClydeThis is quite a debatable post. Personally, I agree 100% with having a “no Kids allowed” rule for the main sanctuary. Our church has a wonderfully active kid’s service, and we even have a nursery with well equipped people manning the room at all times, but still we’ll have a “cryer” in the middle of another great sermon. It’s very distracting, and I don’t see why we even take the time to stock a nursery or hold a kid’s service if the people we’re ministering to won’t use them. But that’s just me.
September 14, 2010
DeborahI disagree with so much of this article, it’s hard for me to find a place to even begin. First of all, why limit the power of the Holy Spirit because today’s parents can’t control their children? I guess the answer is to limit the Spirit and dumb it down for kids in “children’s church,” thereby teaching them that they aren’t welcome in the Big Church. Activity bags at our church keep kids quiet when they need to be quiet. The rest we leave to the Holy Spirit. I feel so sorry for the children of parents who ask if their kids have to be with them in church. What a sad commentary on today’s family. We need to be conscious of the subliminal messages we send by our behaviors toward the next generation of Christians. Bring the expectation that kids can’t behave in church and won’t get anything out of it, and that expectation WILL be fulfilled.
September 14, 2010
CheriI agree with Deborah. The comments I receive are from families that want to be together as much as possible, especially on Sundays. The rest of the week is filled with individual activities, work, school, sports, music lessons, you name it. Families desire and deserve quality time, and what more quality time can there be than to sing, read, listen and pray together! You won’t see kids dismissed from OUR services!
Maybe what needs to be provided are some parenting classes? Hmmm….something the church can provide. Even just some suggestions on how to help your children mind in church would be advantagiou!
September 14, 2010
DeannaThe children are dismissed after worship, but once a month the kids have a special worship service called 3rd Sunday worship where they are taught how to worship on their level. It helps them to engage in worship when they are with the adults, so we don’t have to “tolerate” them.
September 14, 2010
dopravdaSurvey did not have the option at our church – which is we offer a kids church but kids are neither encouraged or discouraged from attending. Many children stay with their parents during the service and it has never been an issue. I have my children with me. It does requires that a parent adequately train their children how to behave during service. Will there be issues? Of course, but parents leave the service if their child is being disruptive. If they miss part of the message, they get the CD or tape. I would rather my children experience adults being moved and responding to a message and being exposed to proper behavior during worship through the message. Every parent is different, and every parent has a different style. I understand that some parents may like the choice to have another option for their children.
September 14, 2010
JayDon’t you talk about my baby like that!
You think she was bad? You should see how far my son can throw a chicken nugget!
Yeah… we don’t eat out anymore.
September 14, 2010
Kenny HoltI assumed when I saw the title that this article was going in a different direction. I immediately thought you were going to discuss USING kids in the worship. We love doing this at our church. I have kids reading scriptures before or after songs, singing a verse of a hymn or chorus sometimes before the congregation sings it or sometimes to close a song. The kids and parents (and grandparents and great-grandparents) love it. More family members show up to see lil’ Johnny than they normally do. I have had kids and parents come up and say my lil’ Susie wants to be involved. Don’t get me wrong, its not like every Sunday they are involved but at least twice a month.
We are a small church (100 members AM attendance 60-70). We don’t have a children’s church. We only have a nursery IF someone wants it. We do have several dear sweet ladies who, from time to time, will go to a young couple whose infant is drowning out the whole congregation’s singing, and take the young en’ to the nursery so Mom & Dad can stay and worship.
September 14, 2010
pastor Michelle - UKI like this comment.We are also a smallchurch of less that 50 & it we simply don’t have enough adults to have permanently separated kids service. Ours go out after worship for their teaching/fun time. We love having the kids in with us for the first part of the service even if it’s challenging at times. We try to teach them how to play hand instruments like tambourines, flag-waving, etc along with the adults. We get them to pray with the sick too along with their parents as we believe their faith & prayers can be just as powerful (our grandson aged 2 touched a man’s thumb & it was healed).
I think to ban ALL kids from coming to a service is a bit harsh especially for those visitng for the first time & maybe as non-believers. Would you visit a “club” all alone, make friends & feel comfortable at the very first meeting? If not, why should we expect little kids to feel comfident enough or even the adults feel good about leaving their kids with total strangers?
All-age worship is a challenge I know & we’re still learning “how to”. I believe we all need a bit more grace & desire to help those who struggle to parent by giving them support & showing them how. We’re about to teach a parenting class to address the issues of bad parenting that affects everyone, including church & society. If we can help in even small ways this has got to be better for all.
September 14, 2010
CheriHurray! Glad you are inclusive! If the kids are involved, they are engaged and interested. Good for you!
September 14, 2010
JoeWe used to have kids in our service, then dismiss them before the sermon. I grew up in the church that I now work at and I remember really hating to go to church too. I hated eating my vegetables. I hated sleeping at night. As kids there’s a pretty good chance we’re going to hate the things that are good for us, I think they call that life.
So should we cater to that? First Don, I’ve enjoyed your posts and site and it has really helped me out in the beginnings of developing our worship ministry. I think the questions we need to be asking instead of “which way is successful”, is what is Biblical?
Too often churches are worried about parents or kids not liking their church. We’re not a business. Yes, we should be doing things to make the experience a joy for people, but in the end what it really comes down to is worshiping God.
Kids emulate by watching their parents. Kids don’t talk because we put them in special classes… they talk because their parents talk to them. In the same way, when I was growing up I learned how to worship by watching the adults around me. I learned that eventually you have to give up your little magnetic dogs that go through a hymnal covering (so cool!) and coloring books and grow up.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve enjoyed the lack of disruption in our services, but I wonder what we’re teaching our kids by saying they constantly need to be segregated because they’re “not ready”. Perhaps this is why it’s still ok for 30 year old kids to live at home? I wonder if we would parent our children better if we knew they needed to be quiet in the service? Maybe we should do one service a month with all the kids in the room? Who knows… I guess we’ll find out when the 2 year olds from today look back and make it mandatory for kids to be in the service
.
September 14, 2010
RobI have a problem. Matthew’s version of the cleansing of the temple identifies kids not in worship as a part of Jesus’ condemnation of the temple worship. If we separate everyone out by age, we miss part of the body of Christ. If my kids are unruly, do I experience the same worship feelings as when they are well behaved, no. But I can still worship. I can still offer my distracted feelings to God as a real offering of what I’m going through today. I think this article reflects a misconception that church is a place to get things from, not a place to encounter God. And I can encounter God cleaning a toilet, singing songs, or addressing my kids’ poor behavior. We need the voices of kids in our worship services just like we need the voices of our elders in our services.
September 14, 2010
Michael KIt depends what you mean by “kid”. How long do you keep them out? Infants and Toddlers can be escorted to a “Cry room” if needed. Elementary kids might benefit from their own programs some time but will they ever see Mom and Dad’s example in worship? And is a 2 hour sermon going to work on the adults of today anyway? Or even a 1 hour? It depends on how the various worship services are conducted.
September 14, 2010
KenSeparate worship service for kids certainly addresses the immediate concern – disruption to the congregation in the service for children that are causing distractions, and providing a “kid-friendly” experience. However, I think by havihg a completely separate service continues to promote what maybe the reason the children are misbehaving in the first place… not being disciplined to participate in corporate worship. My congregation realized a few years ago that it was helpful to everyone to offer a children’s sermon separate from the congregation (children may stay with their family in the sanctuary if they wish), but the children are present in the sanctuary for the rest of the service including the liturgy, hymns, communion, etc.
September 14, 2010
MarthaI believe we are doing a severe disservice to the family when we split them up during worship. It is the family’s responsibility to teach their children about God, yet when you send the children off to their own service, how can they learn about worship from their parents? Children were meant to stay with their family. We have found in our church that the children do participate in worship and the recent addition of screens in our sanctuary keeps their attention better than with just a paper bulletin. Of course, you need to have some provision for parents with crying children – this is what a “cry room” is for.
September 14, 2010
Jim FletcherWe give our families an option. We bring the entire church family together for the first part of the service, which consists of singing. Then the younger children are invited, if they wish, to go to a children’s service called praise kids. Our teens are given the option of either helping out with praise kids or staying in the main assembly with the adults.
Our philosophy has been, whatever you as a family believe is appropriate is okay with us.
Additionally, we have a couple of autistic children that come into the service with their parents. They sometimes may cause a bit of a disturbance, but they ARE OUR CHURCH’S KIDS. We wouldn’t think of asking the parents to leave or take their kids elsewhere, because we are all of God’s children. We just consider their actions a natural part of our worship service. God surely understands!! We do too!!
September 14, 2010
Jim FletcherI meant to say “we are all God’s children”. Sometimes there is a disconnect between what I am thinking and what is typed.
I also share the concern of some others about leaving the impression that formal “big church” worship is only for adults. We always should be aware of the things we explicitly teach, but also what we are saying (or at least what others are hearing) because of our actions.
September 14, 2010
NylaMy first reaction to the article was – “Hmm, sounds like Jesus’ disciples are right back at it again, sending the children away – while Jesus stand there sadly shaking his head.” My second reaction is to the 14,000 member church, and my question is – will those children who are not allowed into worship be back in 15-20 years? My experience is that if the parents aren’t encouraging their children to actively participate in the life of the congregation, including worship and if the parents aren’t teaching their children the importance of being PART OF the Body of Christ together, when the pendulum swings (and it will) these children will see church as another “club” for those who fit the correct mold – not a place where sinners are welcomed and forgiven. In our increasingly individualistic world, the church needs to be a place that welcomes all – I love the noise on Sunday morning – infact I have often found a child’s cry or yell has actually made an emphasis on what I just said in a sermon – not demons pinching kids, but the Holy Spirit speaking through the mouth of babes.
If parents are so determined to worship by themselves and take in a sermon “just for them”, then why not offer extra services for those people – a room all for themselves with a big TV screen that displays the pastor giving the sermon. Let’s welcome the children and teach the parents.
September 14, 2010
LoraWe love children of all ages at our church.
We smile at children within the congregation. We greet them when they enter – by name. We try to attend school and sports activities – loving and accepting kids is not a one day a week event. We provide activity bags for young ones. We have a sort of sound proof room with rocking chairs that has glass so the parents can see the service and the sound is piped in, but a child can be changed or calmed in on of these rooms with little effect on the congregation. We specifically tell parents – especially visitors that may get embarrassed at a mildly fussy child — not to worry because children are welcome — for they are our future.
I can remember with great fondness the spontaneous comments and behaviors of children that humbled the entire congregation – I’m from a VERY traditional denominational church, but I remember during the choir anthem when one of the children left her mothers arms and danced in the aisle – it was beautiful – I was in the choir singing and I lost track of my music because of the sheer authentic feelings being expressed by this three year old girl. And another child yelled out after a particularly beautiful offertory, “Wow – will she play it again!” And the minister said something like, “God loves you and will take care of you” – and a child started to clap – a Yippee! kind of clap! Out of the mouth of babes God has perfected praise. Those kids did for those services what I’ve been trying to do for ages – introduce dance and affirmations! We love kids.
And when I think of it, we’ve not had too many bawling brats ever at our church. I can’t really recall any disturbing scenes and I have a bird’s eye view – being in the choir up in front.
Children, when young, learn by imitation – I learned that way. My mother still tells the story of me holding my hymnal upside down and singing the song from memory.
September 14, 2010
Katie CaulleySome studies show that if kids go to childrens church, then are thrown in to adult church when they get older, they are going to hate church even more than if they had adjusted to it when they were younger. We have children 7 and up stay in church with their parents and we provide them with lots of coloring supplies. Sometimes they are a little distracting, but they just sort of form their own section and it works out alright.
September 14, 2010
Sarah K.I agree with many of the comments. Our church recently made the decision to have the children come back into the sanctuary for musical worship to learn from our example and to feel like they actually belong. We had too many young adults leaving at 18-20 years old because they had never felt they had a place in the main sanctuary.
We also added a time after music and before the sermon called “Youth Corner.” We have our youth and family ministry director give a 5 minute condensed message based on the scriptures and topic from the week’s main sermon. The youth are invited to come sit on stage with him. Then they are dismissed for a children’s lesson during the sermon.
Most churches in the U.S. are around 100 members and do not have the resources to have a completely separate kids’ service – and I’m glad about that. Besides, if someone did teach the kids the entire service, that person is missing out on the service. Someone is always going to miss out on the service in some way.
I agree with an earlier poster who said that the children’s poor behavior can stem from this attitude of the parents that the kids are not welcome. Ignoring children is a very good way to get them to act up for attention.
Finally, attending a church service is not simply about the music or the sermon. Every part of our lives can be worship to God. Fellowshipping with other believers is important and can many times teach us more than listening quietly to a sermon.
September 14, 2010
Stephen LewisNehemiah 8 describes a very lengthy worship service. It went from daybreak until noon. Ezra, who was probably a bit on the boring side as far as public speakers go, read the Law that day. Who was there for that long, long service? Verse 2 — “men and women and all who were able to understand.”
People who are bored … to … tears … in church or wherever, are, frankly, boring people. But we should even love boring people, so here is what I suggest. After singing a few songs together, have your pastor dismiss all the child-phobic adults. Tell those adults that they can follow the pink directional signs down the hallway to a special room where there will be a little service especially there for them. Meanwhile, the poor, the lame, the crippled, the prostitutes, the tax collectors, and the screaming children (all of whom are entering the kingdom of heaven way, way ahead of you) will stay in the main room and continue in the worship service. And may God have mercy on us all.
September 15, 2010
Peggy EmersonLove this thought! LOL
September 29, 2010
Terry AustinThis is the best thing I have read in some time, and believe me, I read a lot of stuff!
September 14, 2010
Leigh Ann HoodI can see both points of view, but separating the kids out of the service for the entire time is one of the reasons I feel we’re seeing the need for a “new service” every time a generation graduates. That’s not bad in itself, but I think as the church it’s important for all ages to learn to worship together. Heaven is surely not going to be segregated by age group any more than it will be by race or ethnicity.
The key is to learn to not make service boring and yet not about entertainment. I have a 2 year old who loves to bop to whatever music is being played and is already trying to say the Lord’s prayer with me.
Unruly children can always be removed from the service, but I’m not sure Jesus would be impressed by the “send them away” attitude. Didn’t he say “Let the children come unto me”. I don’t recall him also saying “Let them come unto me when the adults are not around.”
September 14, 2010
JoeLooks like Don hit a nerve here … Most of the comments that I see above talk about how the adults (parents) feel about the issue.
I sat through those same two hour sermons that Don talks about … in the same church … somewhere on the other side of the sanctuary. The question I ask is “did the kids get anything out of it?” I know that when I was a kid, I didn’t! And I was a pretty good kid. I wanted to be good in church. The services where I really heard from God were services tailored for my age group – youth meetings, church camp, etc.
Maybe we ought to be thinking about what works best in reaching the hearts of the kids.
September 14, 2010
ShariI completely agree with Joe. I believe that another reason is because as a parent you need to be fed too spiritually and that can be hard when your child wants to do what children do: play. If the church has a ministry for kids the children should go there, play with others and learn the Word in their own level of thinking. Think it this way, you don’t send your 1st grader to university to take Math. The same with God’s matters. They need what they need and parents need time for them and the Lord too.
September 14, 2010
MickieI remember attending Church services as a child, and was saved at the age of 8, yes there were time when I was bored and did not understand the things that were said. But the thing I remember most were the times when the other children’s family sat with them and mine were not there. I remember wishing and praying to God why aren’t my parents here with my brother and me. I know it was hard on my brother who wanted to play a lot more than I did but one time he became a little loud with a friend of his and the pastor told the boys it was worship time and our way of serving was to listen and remain quite as respect to others-the when we got home our mother had already been told by someone and both of us received a talking to and warning and neither of us ever made that mistake again. I feel if the child has the option to go to childrens programs that is okay, but there is a time to learn respect and what better place than in church.
September 15, 2010
Peggy EmersonIf you have no other children’s ministry (such as a separate time for Sunday School) then I could see the concerns about kids not learning in church. But we have that opportunity, so I don’t feel that’s a valid argument.
I’m firmly in the family worship camp, but we’re a little different than most folks here. We don’t have a “children’s moment” where kids come to the front. We have a “Family Time” where everyone of every age participates in some way. It might be a circle up discussion about a time you were scared and who comforted you. It might be prayer stations. It might be creating something in the worship service or a game that we play all together. But it always reinforces the central idea of the message/music/readings and includes everyone.
One of the best we ever did was to have everyone in worship form a large circle around the perimeter of the church. Then we passed around baskets that had small items in them (most from the $1 store or even smaller) and had everyone take something. Pastor told everyone that if something came by that they liked, they could just keep it. But if they didn’t want it, they should pass the item on to their right. Well, some people had 3 items (and because of all they were holding onto couldn’t pass things along easily!) and others had none. After a few minutes, Pastor asked a few folks to share what they had kept and why. One of the women said she was keeping the flashlight because it would come in really handy in her car. Pastor said what made her think that was her flashlight? It belonged to him. He was just letting everyone use things because of the game. And it’s like that with what we have. When we hold onto too much, we can’t give to others. God gives us what we have to use, but it isn’t ours. It was a great “Ah-ha” moment that folks still mention when the topic of giving comes up.
Another time we had a dead fish in the sanctuary to talk about being fishers of men and sometimes folks just stink!
I think God created us as creative people who want to be in relationship with Him and with one another. I worry that when we send our children away, they are being told that they are not welcome.
And honestly, I wonder who got anything out of a two hour sermon, regardless of their age. Adults are sometimes just as bored and distracted, but better at hiding it.
I think all churches need to learn more about how people learn (multiple intelligences) and include that in worship. When we grow up we don’t all become audial learners (I certainly didn’t) and since God creates us in this way, shouldn’t churches be challenged to meet those needs, regardless of age?
1 John 1:1 certainly backs this up! That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched?this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
September 15, 2010
KerryLet the kids join their parents during the praise and worship singing. Then dismiss them for a message geared to their age group.
Not allowing children in the service is a one-size fits-all policy that doesn’t fit well. When parents see that they are the only ones with children sitting through the sermon, peer pressure (adult and child) will exert it’s influence without the need for rules and regulations.
September 15, 2010
pastor jamieway to go don!
the “worship wars” are now over. here comes the “kid-friendly war”!
September 16, 2010
KatieI couldn’t disagree more with you, Don. Family unity is being undermined EVERYWHERE socially, but I expect and hope the church doesn’t get sucked into this cultural phenomenon of segregation. Jesus LOVED children and I don’t remember him saying that the Sermon on the Mount was for adults only–no children allowed. In fact, the Bible mentions children being around Him. Do you think any pastor will preach deeper than Jesus did? So then, children should be hearing the Word, and not just at a baby level. Now we come to the root issue: are churches really TEACHING the Word of God, or just a, as you so aptly called it, “healthy wealth and prosperity” Gospel. I’d be bored too, if this is all my church preached–and I’m an adult. No wonder children are bored in most churches–they are more honest with themselves than many adults are, and they don’t see any value in just hearing how Jesus will bless them if they give 10% of their income to the church.
I know I’ve been a little harsh and I apologize if I sounded rude. I know not all churches are money hungry and all churches don’t teach prosperity only Gospels. But too many do, and I don’t blame children if they are bored with that. I think more adults should be bored with it. Let’s delve into the WORD with our children, choose a church that really presents God’s holiness and salvation, and all attend, being built up in family unity together.
September 17, 2010
AndyI don’t think you could have stirred up more “discussion” if you had asked whether hymns were more holy than contemporary songs. There is the biblical example of Jesus welcoming the children as the parents brought them to Him. Other than this example, I don’t recall instructions on segregation by age. So it comes down to personal opinion, like the discussion of appropriate worship style(s). Perhaps some times of compromise on both sides of the “discussion” would present opportunities for us to experience a whole new level/expression of worship.
May we never discredit another’s expression of worship, regardless of which side of the “discussion” we find ourselves.
September 23, 2010
Edward JamesIt may sound inconsequential, and not related to the article…but the picture of the child you chose bears a striking resemblance to Chucky from “Child’s Play” (I believe that was the name of the movie–though I am sorry I ever saw it–albeit 15 years ago as a Christian not yet discerning).
The resemblance (although possibly unintended) speaks, possibly to the attitude toward children that some may have. THIS, in turn, speaks volumes to the lack of training in child discipline that is being taught TO parents in the body of Christ. This, too, may seem to be unrelated OR at best a worthwhile rabbit-trail. However, when children being disruptive is spoken of as a foregone fact of life, I am concerned with how low the bar has been set re: this far-reaching issue.
By the by, I really appreciate Stephen Lewis’
September 27, 2010
DaveI am an adult and I still get bored in church sometimes. My fondest memories growing up in a church that did not have a separate children’s program is observing my mom and dad in worship. That was a tremendous example for me. I got bored as a kid, and when I was a kid my parents got bored sometimes. But I learned that you make it through the hard times to get to the good times. Families belong together because parents are instructed in the Bible to be the teachers of their children. They teach by word and by example.
September 29, 2010
DavidAfter reading the comments thus far, I couldn’t help but throw in my admittedly lengthy two cents (which considering the value of opinion these days, may be all it’s worth). The fundamental issue here is being personalized by almost all of the respondents. I’m not one of those “can’t we all just get along” people, but really folks, this seems to be a little over passionate and a little less objective than required – what is needed here is some pulled-back, less subjective, old-fashioned balance. Several have raised good points about the value of having children in the whole service, others about the value of having children participate in worship with the whole body and then splitting off for a more age-appropriate Bible lesson/sermon/etc. (yes, Virginia, it IS possible to communicate Biblical truths accurately in an age-appropriate way, even if it isn’t everyone’s preference), and yet others who can see the value in keeping the entire service separated for age-appropriate (yet, we hope, Biblical) content. The simple fact that we have different denominations and local congregations within the Body of Christ, is evidence enough that not every local body of believers agrees on what is reasonable (or even what qualifies as “Biblical” for that matter). While this situation is neither intended nor desirable, the fact remains that often it is our opinions that divide us. Although some beliefs are not opinion and unquestionably Biblical and should indeed be defended to the bitter end, much of what divides us is not. So, when we take our own preferences and passions out of the equation, a few elements remain. These then, are what must be grappled with by each local church’s Pastoral Staff based on their relevant factors until they come to a decision on these matters that best aids that staff in serving the unique part of the Body that they serve. So what are these elements? I’m sure I’ll miss a few, but here’s what I see as objectively as I can be (being a flawed human):
1. If indeed the main service is worshipping well and teaching the deep things of God (whether in a more life-application way, thematically, or more expositorily), there should be an expectation that parents are in-fact teaching their children additionally at home, instructing them in the ways of the Lord, and helping them to understand what they’re learning at church. Depending on the general maturity level of any given congregation, that must be assessed by the Pastors to know what would be best. If there is little follow-up at home by the families and there is an unsaid expectation that the church do all the teaching (that is often reflected in the people’s thoughts and actions – and pastors do notice), then if we are to change that pattern, age-appropriate worship services where those patterns can be influenced and a love and devotion to God can be cultivated and encouraged by trained, Biblically solid staff/volunteers are more than reasonable. If we take the great commission seriously, then IN THAT CONTEXT, reasonable efforts to make genuine disciples are mandate, and this fits the bill. It’s not the ONLY thing that does, but it is a reasonable option. Plus, if ideas and concepts are issued in grown-up terminology (whether in the music or in the teaching), some after-discussions need to be had by families that experienced it together, of don’t be surprised when children grow up with misconceptions about God and His world.
2. In this day, it has become increasingly needful to address culturally relevant issues within services in the interest of sharing God’s views on the subject as stated in Scripture, as great error has crept into the Body of Christ and the Church-at-large is losing her God-given influence due to compromised truth and hypocrisy within her ranks. As such, in some churches, subject matter which is being used to issue these needed wake-up calls (at the discretion of each individual Pastor as He feels led by God) may be too inappropriate for little ears and the inevitable questions that may follow. Depending on the individual pastor, your church’s demographic & location, and some other factors, it may happen never, infrequently, or VERY frequently. As such, if you’re in a church where that happens often, separate services are not only reasonable, but often desirable and gives the Pastor the freedom to preach passionately as He feels led without having to worry that young ones are being exposed to too much, too soon; or that children are not being fed at all. On the other hand, if the Pastor NEVER addresses those things in ways that would be inappropriate for little eyes and ears, then perhaps unified services ARE what is called for.
3. Families in our culture do seem to be under attack and often are fragmented and frazzled. Worshiping together as they sing and open the Scriptures can be a balm for that. Sometimes, it works against families that are struggling to have one more time of separation…
4. Obviously, Scripture has directives to parents to teach their children about the Lord, to bring them up in ways that are pleasing to God. As parents, we often lead best by example, and sharing that time together gives us great opportunity to model for our children how we worship corporately with other believers, and how we study the Bible with other believers. It also models respect for the offices of our church leaders when we follow their leading in service (not that leadership is NEVER questioned, but there is too little respect culturally for the office of “Pastor” anymore, and that isn’t a good thing).
5. Biblically, cases can be made for both sides of the issue. If it were settled, then there could be no debate. And while the Scriptures have often been taken out of context to justify ridiculously wrong positions, there are those who still argue about things for which well-known and Biblically sound teachers/preachers/seminary professors/etc. still disagree, yet few would question whether these persons stand on the Bible. So smarter humans than you or I still disagree on exactly what the “Biblical” position is on various important subjects. And I’m sure that not everyone who we would consider to be Biblically orthodox agrees on this particular matter either. You can investigate their churches and you’ll probably find that no two do things exactly alike. You can either let this frustrate you to no end, or you can accept it as something you’re powerless to change, and as a result, seek God on which local body you are to join and serve with, seek Him and study His Word when conflicts arise in the governance of that particular body, and do your best to be a help to those whom God has called to be your pastors (or if you are a pastor, your co-pastors/staff) whether they all worship together or have age-divided worship as seems appropriate to that church’s leadership – until such time that God leads you to a different place of ministry.
Just my thoughts. Figured there had been too much passionate mud-slingin’ and not enough objectivity. And while no human can ever be completely free of unreasonable bias, we can try to do better, especially on disputable matters.
September 29, 2010
CharltonWow… all I have to say it that if you’re depending on an hour on a Sunday morning to teach your kids how to worship or teach them the Gospel, you’ve missed the point! Our LIVES should revolve around worship and the Gospel! Most of the people that oppose the “No kids” policy are in a small church… and they will stay a small church… completely and utterly ineffective in their community and culture. Now, mind you, if you’re in a town of 100 people and every person in the town is committed and serving in your church, then you are BEING the church more than a church that is in the middle of a large city and is ok with having 100 people because its comfortable… As long as there are lost people out there, we are called to reach THEM! I’ve seen too many people visit a church and never come back because of crying babies. If your church wants to grow (and all churches should), then a kids service is necessary. Simply because once you fill up the seats will you turn people away or start a new ministry for the children? I like the comment about sending a child to a university to learn math… kids sitting in the service and coloring does NOTHING for them, and takes away from most other people around them…
Strive for excellence! Now I’m not coming down on churches and people that allow children in services but still have a hoppin’ kids program, then at least they have a choice… I’m more disappointed in the families that throw the ownership of teaching their children how to worship and the Gospel on the church! THAT IS THE PARENTS’ JOB!!! AT HOME!!!
I have visited New Spring a couple times (and I live in Chicago… 12 hours away from NS), and my first time I brought my 8 month old daughter to the nursery. She LOVED it so much, she cried when I came to pick her up!
I could go on and on, but I’ll stop there…
September 29, 2010
Donna HarpOur church focuses on reaching out to the unchurched. It is large enough to have separate church services designed for each age group, small children, elementary, middle school on Sunday morning. Teens and adults are together. On Sunday evening, there is an excellent youth service for teens and twenty-somethings. Children are allowed but two or more ushers go together to help escort noise-makers to a separate TV room.
Our children were with us in our small church services a couple of decades ago. They still remember the praise and worship songs they learned then. However, they also remember the object lessons presented in their well-planned Sunday School classes.
Churches may find a solution by having two service-times, one for family worship and another for adults only with an excellent children’s church.
September 29, 2010
Brad MYour blog post takes a pretty bold position, but I disagree with the grounds on which you’ve based your argument.
Fact is, a church CAN be a place to do your ‘business with God’, but that is not its primary function. Our time alone in the Word and in prayer serves the purpose of drawing near to the Lord and getting right with Him.
Getting right with God at a church service is a secondary purpose. Primarily, the Church is place where fellow believers can come together to fellowship with other believers, to encourage one another, to read scripture, and to submit ourselves to apostolic leadership…and yes, to worship.
Granted, screaming kids is not condusive to the some of these things, and it is good principle for parents to remove their misbehaving children so that others around them can freely participate.
While reducing distraction during the service is certainly good, it is not necessary, and prioritizing it over a family unit isn’t appropriate, in my opinion.
Another matter of principle to consider is Freedom of Choice. For young mothers with dependant infants, Newspring is taking that option to worship away. Those who are too distracted by her are free to leave – it is their choice.
If one way or another somebody is going to leave the sancturary, I’d rather go about such that if anybody leaves, it was their own choice – not because I made them go.
It’s the honor system. People with badly-behaving kids are not chained to their pews. Let them use their judgement – in most cases I’ve seen, parents are more than happy to get up and leave voluntarily.
The ‘No Kids Policy’ is well-meaning, but I think it is pretty misled.
November 7, 2010
TimIf a church tolerates noisy kids, then I don’t go. If they prefer noisy kids to adults, fine, I go elsewhere. I agree entirely with this post. Particularly annoyed with bringing babies and toddlers to an adult service. What good will they ever get out of an adult service? That young they may as well stay home or be in daycare. For older kids, have a children’s service or better yet a Sunday School where they are taught the basics. I believe that churches should post their policy so that people can pick and choose.
February 8, 2011
mrI’m sure few parents bring their babies into the service so they can hear the word of God. Obviously, the parents want to go. If they stay home, so does the parent. Babies born in flu season don’t need to be in nursery with a bunch of other babies and thier germs. Seriously, you would not go to a church because there’s a baby in the service. So much for the heart of Jesus.
November 30, 2010
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February 8, 2011
mrThe bigger distractions in our church come from the squeaky hearing aide of an ederly man and occasional outbursts from a mentally retarded young lady. Should they be banned too? I’m sorry all the kids in your life lack any sort of self control. 5th Sundays all school-aged kids (Kindergarten up) are in our main service and it is just as quiet as any other Sunday.
June 20, 2012
I8ajellybeanYou are missing another aspect:bus ministry kids with no parental supervision! I attend an inner city church with a large group of children who attend without their parents. Left alone, these kids sleep, eat, laugh out loud, write (sometimes lewd) notes, even steal. Through Children’s CHurch they are better supervised, engaged and learn about how to behave in addition to learning about God and His love. Otherwise it is left to the Sunday School teachers to follow them into the service, sit with them, discipline them…basically getting NOTHING from the service themselves. Then add to that having children of your own to control/teach and I welcome Children’s Church (and yes, I am one of the directors!)